Okay Haley Golden has been at Evergreen for four years teaching upper division physical education. She loves teaching students that they still can be creative when playing traditional sports. Her ultimate goal is to create a space where every student feels like they belong and has the tools to succeed in physical education.

McKenna, Haley, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thanks. Yeah, thanks for having us. We are so excited to share some of the stories that you have already shared with us with our listeners. So we wanna start here. Every physical education class has a wide range of students in it. What does that range look like in your classes?

Yeah, I would say we’re no different. one thing that I’ve found is that we have some extremely, skilled athletes, and we have, uh, also a lot of students who have very little interest in physical education. So in the upper division at least, it, it’s, .. We’re operating on, like, very different or, like, opposite sides of the spectr there.

, yeah. Yeah, and I feel like for elementary P, it is also very true. , there will be kids that are super, super into sports, wanna play sports all the time, wish that P could just be sports 24/7. , and then we have our friends that are a little bit, they just don’t, they’re not very, , confident in themselves yet, I don’t think.

And then also, they’re just not interested in sports, and they also just don’t have the coordination yet. And trying to balance, like, the explaining to the sportier kids that we have to do things so that everyone can practice, but then also have them have, like, a extension challenge, too, if that makes sense So what do you do to, to reach this range of students inside of your physical education classroom?

Yeah, so one thing that I started doing a couple years ago, maybe my first year here, , was offering a lot of choice within our activities. , we like to do a thing whenever we are playing a more traditional s- game or sport of offering the kids a, like, a competitive game, we call it competitive, a semi-competitive game, or a non-competitive creative game.

And so they get to kind of self-elect where they want to play that day. And it’s worked out really well because it does give our, all of our students a chance to say, “Well, today, I really want to play explicitly by the rules. I want to keep track of points. I’m feeling really motivated in this particular area.”

And it also gives students the agency to say, “Well, actually, I kn- yes, I know all the rules, I know the skills, but I wanna create my own game. I don’t want to just play a traditional game of basketball. I want to create my own game.” And I think that that has really, you know, given the students a lot of, like I said, agency in deciding where they go.

And I think it also helps them when they, when we do have a game where maybe we don’t have as many options like that, they can persevere and they can play with everybody else during that game ’cause they know they’re gonna still get the opportunity, you know, when it comes along to have a more creative avenue Yeah, and I feel like for primary, when I introduce a new, like, unit or skill, I always start off with, , stations.

And in those stations, there’s always opportunities for students to challenge themselves more, and then also being able to kind of pair kids off by, like, skill level in a way, just because it’s like, most of the time their friends are the people that they want to be with, and that will, like, be similar to them and challenge them.

And so, and sometimes it’s not, but usually it is. , but that’s how I kind of differentiate for all the groups in those. And then in, like, the more creative games that we can move forward on after we master those stations, , is I also just encourage the k- the students that need extension, , to challenge themselves.

Like, find a way to make this challenging for you because you can. And if that means just, like, backing up 10 feet so that it’s actually challenging, then do that, you know? Or sometimes I, I have to give them reminders or give them new challenges if they don’t come up with their own. But, , then it just, like, keeps it interesting and fun for all of them.

And I’ve, I’ve got issues in my headphones, so this is a different mic. It’s probably worse now. I’m sorry. – No, it’s actually better now. Okay. And, and I want to come in here because as Cindy referenced, we’ve worked with you before, and I’m just gonna go out there and say that I think what you do in the PE class is highly creative, and it probably doesn’t feel that creative to you maybe because it’s kind of like, “This is what we do.”

But I need you to talk a little bit about, you alluded to it just then, making these kind of like games, because it’s not just any physical education class. You’re not playing basketball and teaching kids the rules of basketball. You’re not playing soccer and teaching kids the rules of soccer. I mean, they are playing and using their imagination and having fun at a whole nother level.

So if you could talk a little bit about why you think your classroom or what… If you could talk a little bit about why you think Matthew thinks your classroom is absolutely awesome, that would be great. Yeah, I will say in the upper division we do play like more traditional sport as well. But I think that what I’ve really tried to do within that is, one, play games that, that maybe not everybody is as familiar with.

, and then also make sure that I am mixing in strictly creative games. Like we’ve talked so much, you know, when you guys are here about Extreme Pinball, and we played that this week. And I think that that gives a lot of life to the kids, like knowing that they get that within it. But we also both… You know, if we are doing a A striking unit.

, we’re gonna play games within that, that it’s not just the sport, right? So I’m thinking off the top of my head, like cricket. Last year, we were running into the issue of having so many kids trying to play cricket, and if you know anything about cricket, it takes for- it forever. , and I really want it to be everybody’s moving, everybody’s doing stuff.

So I just created this game in the gym that was working on batting and bowling, and it had the same elements of cricket. The way that you could score was different, but it had all… I think we had, like, a, maybe a double class in there. Yeah, 36 kids. Like 30, 36 kids in there, five different set up- S- yeah

games going on. Six different games going on. So it was like, you know, each, each game had a batter and a bowler and then fielders, and the fielders were everywhere in the gym, and you could score points similar in cricket based on where you hit it in the wall or on the wall. , and then the kids loved that ’cause they were f- you know, getting to figure out like, “Well, I wanna be a fielder,” but in cricket you don’t have to just hit it forward, you can hit it backwards.

And, , just allowing them to kind of also have agency in that, of where they wanna play, what they wanna do, how they wanna keep track of score. Some kids don’t wanna keep track of score at all. Mm-hmm. I think that’s a good example of it is a, it is a sport. You know, like we are, it is cricket, but we’re not just playing a game of cricket where two people are batting and running forever and everybody else is sitting there waiting.

, because I mean In my, in my opinion, that’s not very fun and you lose 90% of the kids while they’re sitting there waiting. , yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, but, , I want to unpick this a little bit more though, because i- if you think about it, like every teacher, you’re, you’re tasked with having a curricul , and so Cindy and I have spoken about this on the show.

Sometimes it feels like a scripted curricul . And if you think about it, we’re gonna teach cricket and- Mm … you know, we- there’s rules around this match, and you kind of sometimes feel like you’re constrained to those rules. But what I’m hearing you say is that, “No, I’m, I’m not constrained to those rules.”

We’re gonna able to modify and tweak those rules because ultimately the learning objective, if I’m hearing you correctly, is that it’s about striking the ball with a bat. Mm. And so long as- Yeah … that objective is being met, the hand-eye coordination, they’re learning a little bit about a bowler, they’re learning a little bit about a batter, and they’re learning a little bit about a fielder, we can go and expand what are perceived as constraints, right?

To a, in, in a way that actually make this game work within our environment, and it involves everyone. And you’re problem-solving as well, and that, and that’s the piece that my gut feeling is not every physical education teacher would immediately ass e they can do. Yeah, I mean, I think you hit it, like right on the head.

I think that’s our philosophy pretty much- Yeah … like to a T. – Yeah, I feel like- Yeah … if we have an idea for a game, and we are not sure how to execute it with like the equipment we have, the space that we have, the other like factors that go into our day-to-day at Evergreen that might potentially be a barrier, we really do brainstorm and usually come up with something really, really great and fun that who knows if it’s, like, better than the original idea, ’cause you couldn’t try it.

But we made something that is like so fun, that the kids love, keeps them engaged the whole time. And I think that’s one thing about, like, the kids at Evergreen that I’ve learned in the last few years is that, like, the games that you play, like, they want to be engaged the whole time. So I think that me and Haley always make it a goal of like how can we make sure that every student has a role and is engaged in the game the whole time, because making them like subs or making them have like a standing role a lot of times loses them And so, , just, like, creating new jobs for them in games so that they feel still included.

, I did this, we play a game called Danish long ball, which is, like, a kicking game, and it’s one of the few games, like, in primary where it’s, like, if you get out, like, you’re just, like, out for that round. , and so to combat the kids just going to the side and, like, doing whatever they wanted, I give them three options.

I say, “You get to be, like, a ghost runner, where you can still practice, like, your running, , but your points don’t count anymore, or you can be a coach, where you’re coaching your team and telling them when to run and, like, watching the game, or you can be a cheerleader and you’re encouraging people.” And they love it so much.

They love that they can still be involved and that they can have some, like, agency over what they choose and what they’re feeling that day. , but yeah. I just wanna say, as someone who is not sporty and was once called the worst player ever to play cricket in England in a game that I played, I have such-

great admiration for what you’re doing inside of the physical education classroom, because I think I still have nightmares that they take back my degrees because of physical education and me failing- … you know, that, those courses when I was back in school because I was, I was that bad. And I think I was that bad because, one, I was intimidated, , by, by sport because I was never a sporty person.

I was never involved- Mm-hmm … in sports. I was much more of an arts person. , and I think that I, I was just so intimidated when other people played so much better, that I think what you’re describing and saying you get to choose the kind of roles, the kind of work that you wanna do i- inside of the class, you get to choose how you wanna play the game and to what level you wanna play at, is really…

I, I, I just, I have so much love for that because I, I wish all of education was like that. So I, I think about, Matt, I think about how this translates into other kinds of classrooms and how much I wish education was like that, because I want students to be challenged at their level. Yeah, some kids are sporty, some kids are artsy, you know, they have a natural pr- proclivity to that, and I think it should be a place where you feel comfortable trying in every domain.

And what I love about what you’re doing is that you’re giving them that space to try, and to try different roles, and to be in the space that they feel comfortable and willing to take risks. So s- also a safe place, right? So you talked about the, , social emotional learning. So I’m curious how that shows up as a result of these spaces that you’re creating inside your classroom.

Yeah, I feel like the social emotional learning in that, , li- like having them have agency and choice allows them also to, like, have, like you said, this safe space where they can solve problems and solve conflicts and, like, work on self-esteem and self-confidence, , without feeling like they are being judged by their peers, I feel like.

Especially once, like, third, fourth, fifth grade hits, I think that’s when it starts, like, most kids start to feel it more. , but I think, too, just, like, I try and give choice in every single lesson that I do, like, in some capacity, and I think that that just really, really helps kids realize, like, “Oh, like, I get to do something comfortable for me,” and everybody gets to choose what they want.

So it’s not like I have to use this and I’m bad at… Like, it’s not like I have to throw a football and I’m bad at throwing a football. I can also choose to throw a foxtail, or I can choose to throw a, just a normal ball and not have to feel bad about that because everyone has that choice. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

I’ll also kind of piggyback on this a little bit. , I think I would say the majority of what we teach is social emotional learning. I think that are, those are the skills that to me Matter the most because they have to learn how to work as a team. They have to learn how to also listen. They have to learn how to lose.

They have to learn how to win. And all of these things, you can’t just expect kids to just… Some kids do have, you know, like it’s more innate within them, but you have to teach them. And I think that that is one thing this week we’ve been really talking about, okay, this is a strategy game, and I want to see before every round you huddling up with your team, talking about your strategy.

Do you need to adapt it? Do you need to create different roles? Do you need to have somebody, you know, that’s just set on this one thing? And also, what does it look like to be communicating as a team together during, during that strategy? You know, and having the kids give me examples of what does it look like.

It, you know, they’re telling me, “We’re not talking over each other. If somebody has an idea that we don’t necessarily think works, we’re not just shutting them down immediately. We’re gonna discuss it.” And I really think that giving them the instruction to actually work as a team and not just expecting it of them, that is really helpful because we don’t expect them to just know a new math equation.

You have to teach them. And yeah, I think it’s really important I, I, I wanna, I wanna go back to something, uh, really quickly. What I, what I found fascinating, two things, was one, when Cindy said, “I’m not very sporty.” And I couldn’t help but think that, that quite often Cindy and I start our workshop to say, “I’m not very creative,” and we, we challenge that stereotype, right?

So, you know, it’s like, “I’m not very good at math. I’m not creative. I’m not sporty,” right? So it’s, it’s interesting how we can identify ourselves as being not good at something. And in your case with physical education, you can associate physical education with sports. But as I’m listening to this, uh, conversation, that’s not actually what it’s about, right?

It, it… You’ve got very specific learning objectives. For example, you’re just talking about teamwork there, and actually mentoring and teaching what it means to be part of a team. But the, the other element that I was really curious about is that you’ve been talking and using the word games, and Cindy, when you were talking, you, you were using the word sports, and it, and it, it seems very much that within your physical education classroom, yes, of course, you are teaching them sports and different sports and terminology and rules within different sports, but it sounds like you’re just playing games.

And to that end, I know when, when you and I have had conversations, another kind of really cool thing that you, you sometimes do is get the kids to make their own games, but then you give them kind of, , uh, what do we call it, parameters that they must include in their game. So for example, j ping, timing, right?

Like you’ve gotta… The whole team’s gotta complete it in X amount of minutes. So I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about that, because when you were telling me about that activity, I found myself thinking it was an activity that not, not even, you know, doesn’t have to be h- even had in a physical education class.

It just sounds like a fun activity where you’re teaching kids to design games. Yeah, they did that, … We did it this year at the beginning of our year. So at the end of their teamwork unit, , which is the first unit that we do, they got a chance with their teams. I had just an array of equipment out, and they got to pick different equipment and, yeah, create, create a game, create an activity.

And they had a class to test it with themselves and kinda workshop it, and I was around helping them and stuff. And then they got to teach it to their class. So that took, like, another week, week and a half, and the kids loved it. And I told them, “You know, these games, these are games that we can use during our, let’s say, hockey unit.

If you come up with a great game right now that I think works really well for hockey, like, maybe that’s what we’ll play. We’ll play it during our hockey unit.” And there were so many… They love it. They love that, you know, kind of open-endedness to it. , there are really, there Their parameters were it’s gotta be inclusive, everybody has to be able to play it, and you have to come up with it as a team.

It cannot be one person that says, “This is the game we’re making, this is the game we’re playing.” , and safe, obviously. That’s, you know, n ber one. , but yeah, they loved it, and they came out, like, honestly with some really fantastic ideas that we will be using during our units. There also was- Yeah … a couple that, , we ended up bringing to McKenna and saying, “I think this would be a fantastic primary division game.”

And so- Yeah … the plan is that- Yeah … those kids will go teach the primary kids that, the game that they created. , yeah, it was really cute. They loved it. They got, you know, they wrote it all down. , some of them printed it out. It was really sweet. Yeah. Oh, that’s so much fun. And I- Yeah … if I was a student in your classroom, I probably wouldn’t be having bad dreams about-

physical education classes when I was younger. So I wanna talk about something that made us, made me smile the last time I was out in Seattle working with the teachers at Evergreen, which was, I… I’m gonna start this section again, so cut that out, Matt Okay, so I wanna talk about something that you brought up briefly, which was extreme pinball, because I know when you mentioned it when I was out there last, I said, “Yes, I love that word extreme,” because just by making something extreme makes it a bit more fun.

And one of the actions in our book that just came out, which is called The Future Creative, is enjoy the ride, and it has a lot, has a big element of fun in it. And so I’m wondering, why did you choose this word extreme? What is extreme pinball? Are they actually playing with a pinball machine, or is it something else that I could imagine that the two of you came up with?

Y- yeah, so extreme pinball, , I came up with it last year. I don’t, I don’t remember. If I’m being honest- I think- … I think maybe it was because I, we were supposed to start volleyball, and I was like, “You know what? I feel like I wanna play a different game.” , which you can cut that out if you want, but that’s the honest truth.

Uh, and yeah, it just was like, well, maybe you guys had played pinball the week before or something. Yeah, ’cause there’s a game just pinball in primary that we play. Yeah. And then Haley was like, “Well, I’m gonna do pinball, but I’m gonna make it extreme.” Yeah. And then, like, just came up with this whole idea of how to make it, like, more difficult for the upper division kids, because it, the game’s not fun if it’s not challenging for them, so…

Yeah, so the basic, , objective is we have bowling pins, that’s why it’s pinball, and when they’re in primary, each team, it’s going long ways in the gym, and the main objective is to just knock the other team’s pins down, so it’s a throwing and catching game. , and the kids love it, and, but that, in and of itself Isn’t enough of a challenge for the kids, so I switched it in the gym.

And so then you’re going up and down. , same objective, you’re supposed to be the first team to knock down the other team’s pins, but there’s so many more rules that I’ve added. , I added like a, a zone of cones that only the goalies are allowed to defend the pins behind. , and there are mats everywhere to hide behind.

And then one element that I added in was that you could not get hit with a ball unless you invade the other team’s side. Because a lot of students, especially starting, you know, with like fourth and fifth grade, a lot of them don’t want to get hit with a dodgeball. We, we have like, you know, not old school dodgeballs, but like really nice soft foam dodgeballs.

, but a lot of them don’t wanna get hit with them. And so I added in an element that if you’re on your team’s side, then you can’t get hit with a dodgeball. And, but if you invade the other team’s side, you can try to get as close to their cones as possible, and you can throw from their, their set of cones.

But if you invade their side, that’s when they’re allowed to try to get you out with, by hitting you with a dodgeball. , and then the other element to it is that if you get out, all you do is run one lap around the gym and you’re back in. Mm-hmm. So it’s super low stakes. And just by adding that ele- those two elements of You’re not necessarily going to get hit with a dodgeball unless you choose to go in.

And also, if you do get hit with a dodgeball, you’re back in the game within 30 seconds. And so the kids, they love it, and like, they’re running so much during it. I usually play with them, and I’m so sweaty. Like, we’re having so much fun. It really has, you know- Yeah … we talk about, like, the agency of jobs, and within that game, there are so many different jobs.

Today we had one team that decided they were, they wanted their dodgeballs to be in a spot, and so that the people who were defending and the attackers always had one spot that they could come back to. So one student elected to be the, just the collector, and they are running around everywhere just collecting these dodgeballs, and that’s part of a team.

That’s, you know, that, you don’t have to be the main attacker to be part of a team. You don’t have to be the goalie. That is also an equally important part. Yeah. And yeah, it just is- Yeah, and to chime in too, I remember when Haley and I were brainstorming about Extreme Pinball, , you were really passionate about, like, making a dodgeball game that all the kids enjoyed- Yeah

because there are so many of our kids that really struggle with the idea of getting out. They just don’t want to for a lot of reasons. They don’t wanna be out because they don’t wanna go and stand in the jail. They don’t wanna be out because they just, like, like social emotional-wise can’t really, like, handle the idea of, like, failing or, like, just not being perfect.

, but she wanted to make a game that was where they had choice of whether they got out. So it’s like, if you choose to invade, you can get out, but if you wanna- Yeah … stay the whole game and just defend and not have to risk that, then you don’t have to, and the kids love it because- Yeah … of that aspect.

Like, there’s so many kids that don’t usually enjoy dodgeball games- Yeah … that love this one because they don’t have to get hit. Yeah. And s- And it w- I would say also, it, I have seen the, you know, the kids that they start out really apprehensive about Wanting to invade or not. Then by the end of it, they’re all going.

Mm-hmm. They have decided it is, you know, it, it’s okay, and I think just giving them that time to build that confidence even just within, you know, a 45-minute class period- Yeah … is, yeah. It’s a very fun game. Y- y- y- you know what? I do wanna pick up on the word extreme and the story you shared, Haley, about where it came from, because it sounded to me that there was a need that you recognized that you had to go further- Yeah

that this, this was not gonna challenge the students enough, and really the word extreme was representative that you needed more from this. And, you know, uh, we do- we’ve got many episodes on the podcast around giftedness, and of course Evergreen is, is a gifted school. And, you know, it’s very fascinating when we talk about sports because sports is one of those places where it kind of has its own gifted ed programs, right?

You, you have very talented individuals that are performing at a very high level of sports, and I can imagine some of the, the top basketball players, the top hockey players, the top soccer players, when they’re coming and working in your unit, in your PE classroom, that must be really, really hard to challenge them.

And I’m, I’m just sitting here thinking a little bit that there’s many educators that probably can, can learn from you with their gifted and talented students on how they can go extreme. So my question for you is do you think some of your approach to physical education… Or let me rephrase that. So to what extent do you think your approach to physical education has been influenced by the fact that you’ve got very talented kids in sports?

Oh, they look frozen Yeah, they looked like they were panicking. Do you know what I think it might’ve been? It looked like a classic, “Oh my God, my battery’s gonna die.” I know.

Oh, and we lost them

All right. Yeah, so I think, , it kind of stemmed from multiple angles. Yes, , I think there is a need to, kind of like what you said, whenever we do have such skilled athletes who are also gifted, they will get very bored very quickly as well, , if you’re not challenging them. So I think adding in an element of challenge is a huge part of why, you know, I tried to kind of evolve that game a little bit for them.

And then another thing that I would say is that just, you know, giftedness as a whole, I was kind of my first year here warned, like, “You have to have very explicit rules because these kids are gonna find every single avenue to break those rules.” And to me, that was kind of like, okay, well then Why don’t I take away some of the rules and let them have avenues to play differently, and not put them in such constraints to where they are constantly breaking the rules, but see how they evolve things, see how they play when given the freedom to kind of play without all these boundaries?

So yes, I think it’s twofold. It, there needs to be that element of challenge for students who, you know, otherwise would kind of be less interested in a game or an activity or a sport. But also, it gives students so much room to interpret how they want to participate in that activity. And, and it comes, definitely comes with, you know, its challenges as well of people say, “Well, that’s cheating.

Well, that’s, you know, not fair.” And then having those conversations as well, you know, the SEL part of it of, “Well, was it cheating or did you just not like it? Or was it cheating or was that just kind of a great strategy? And how can you and your team work together now to combat that strategy?” Mm-hmm. , yeah, I think- Yeah, I think, too, I feel like I see that a lot in primary as well, especially, like, once my third graders are in the third grade, they really want more.

They want a challenge, and they’re also just ready for it. They, they’re ready to try new things, try something bigger, introduce a new element. , and like even in a game I was playing this week, , I added that instead of tagging, they would pull flag football flags, and they thought that that was just, like, incredible and so fun.

And, , it just, like, allows them to, like, try something brand new and learn and persevere. In primary PE, I say growth mindset probably 100 times a class it feels like. , because, like, really we have to challenge them to go into that growth mindset and, like, I had a conversation with third graders today of, like, saying, like, “Not everything is gonna be easy.

Like, it’s gonna be hard and you have to continue persevering because if you don’t, your whole team is gonna fail.” Like, if you don’t try, like, yeah, if you try and fail, like, maybe your team still doesn’t do as well, but if you don’t try at all, then, like, your team is gonna fail. , and yeah. Yeah. I think also, I think for, you know- In the classroom, how that can be adapted for, you know, gifted students is just understanding what a gifted brain gets dopamine out of.

And a lot of times a gifted brain gets dopamine from breaking the rules and from- Yeah … pushing those boundaries and testing what, where is the limit. And instead of, you know, constantly giving that negative reinforcement and constantly having to get onto the- you know, these kids that their brain is just seeking something, it, you know, that’s just the chemistry of their brain.

Instead of constantly getting onto them about certain things, like, why don’t we try opening it up to where they can also thrive, and they can be creative, and they can solve, you know, problems. And some of the greatest, like, creativity and some of the greatest just, like- Yeah … things that I didn’t even think of, these kids are constantly coming up with, constantly.

And it is amazing to watch. Uh, the kids also know, like, they’re, they’re, “Well, Miss Haley, what if we played by this rule?” Mm-hmm. Like, actually, yeah, I love it. Let’s add it in. Let’s adapt it. Let’s do this. I love it. Fantastic. And I think it really does, you know, it just helps those kids Thrive. Honestly.

Mm-hmm. So Matt asked about the students who were strong athletes, n- like natural strong athletes, and I’m curious about the students who don’t feel as confident in their athletic skills, and how your approach impacts them. So do you have any examples of that? Yeah, I… An example, I mean, I guess I can think of is that we kind of talked about it as well.

We have a, a sixth grader who’s new this year who has been very apprehensive just to upper division PE in general. And I think as the year is progressing, we’re seeing, I’m seeing him really start to thrive and, like, find confidence, and I think a lot of that comes from the fact that I do tell them pretty explicitly, “You’re not graded on being a good basketball player.

You are, your grades, what I’m looking for, my expectations are, are you a good teammate? Are you trying? Are you participating? Are you problem-solving? Are you working together?” It’s not star athlete, so you get, you know, the best grade. And I think lowering that, taking that pressure away really helps those students know, “Okay, I’m, I can try and I can fail, and it’s okay because I’m gonna learn.”

And then also still explicitly teaching them, “This is how you properly throw a ball.” And if you, you know, the mechanics of it, the, I think a lot of our students, if you teach them the why, then it’s like- Yeah … “Oh, okay, I get it.” And teaching them, if we’re doing throwing a ball, “This is the proper way to throw a ball so that you are getting power behind it.

You’re accurate. And you can all do it, but here is the step-by-step way to do it.” I think that helps them so much, ’cause they might not have been explicitly taught that. But also letting them know it’s okay. Uh, you, you don’t have to, you know, be the- Yeah … s- you know, star player. Yeah, I think too with, – Creative games in my primary classes, especially ones that are like more like fleeing and chasing, there are a certain n ber of kids that really dislike those games, and it’s because like maybe they just like aren’t as coordinated, or they’re not as like fast as like the other kids, and so they do really struggle.

But I start off all those lessons and give them a lot of encouragement, saying like, “Being part of a team isn’t about being the best player and being able to, like, collect the most points for your team. It’s about, like everyone offers different strengths. There might be somebody who’s super, super fast and good at stealing, but there also might be somebody who has a mind for defense and spacing, or there’s somebody that’s a really good, like, at strategy, or someone who’s a really good leader and encourager and teammate.”

And like, just like reiterating to them, like it’s important to have all of those things, because if you don’t have somebody that is offering strategy, then your team also just, like might not ever come up with that strategy, and that is something that’s a big win for you, even if you technically didn’t score them a point.

Your strategy could have played a part in that, you know?

Matt, are you still there? You look frozen. Oh, no, you’re okay. Yeah, I’m, I’m still here. Do, do you wanna ask you my question, Matt? , I think I’ve, I think I’ve been pretty dominant in, in this, in this interview, so I, I… You, you should ask it. – Right, I’ll ask it. Mostly ’cause- Yeah … we can’t hear you. Okay. So McKenna and Haley, thank you so much for sharing your insights today.

I loved hearing your stories and could listen all day. , but we have one final question for you. Can you each name someone who spotted your creative potential? Who were they, and what did they see, and what happened because of it? Yeah, I would say when I was in high school, I had a teacher, she was, uh, my English teacher in senior year of high school, , that I feel like spotted my creativity ’cause we were doing, like, creative writing and, , I feel like I was never super confident in my writing ability, or I always just felt like, yeah, like, I am just, like, in the middle for my class, or, , but she just was able to really highlight that.

It’s like, no, like, you’re actually really, really great at just writing in general, and the creati- the creative writing that we were working on, I just was able to really thrive in. And I think when she, like, gave me that compliment, it gave me, like, this confidence to, like, be like, “Okay, c- I am creative,” because I never thought of myself as creative growing up either.

Like, I was never very artsy. I wasn’t good at art and drawing and music. But I think then, like, especially, like, then and then in adulthood, I just realized creativity can look so different in so many ways, and how I am creative, and I, even if it’s like I’m creative in creative problem-solving, like, I would call myself a problem solver, and I think that that’s something that I’ve really become to appreciate in adulthood and, like, in that moment, like, , in high school.

Hmm. Yeah, and I think, I mean, this might sound kind of cliché I guess, but I really have never cr- like, considered myself a creative person. I think, you know, whenever you guys came in our first meeting maybe with Matt, and Matt was going around and asking everybody to share where, like, what they were doing and how they were creative, and I kind of was like, “Please don’t ask me.

Please don’t ask me.” Yeah. And then because I just never thought of myself as creative, and I’ve never thought of, like, what we do and how, you know, I approach PE as creative until Matt, I shared, you know, in that meeting, and Matt was like, “That’s amazing. This is awesome.” And then, yeah, I feel like since then, it kind of has, you know, opened my eyes to, oh, this, this is super creative for these kids.

Mm-hmm. And it’s also I think challenged me to think, “How can I be more creative? How can I really embrace, you know, sometimes, like, the chaotic nature of my brain to be just, like, an avenue for creativity for these kids?” And yeah, so I, I really appreciate you guys and just all of the work that you’ve been doing with us here, and yeah.

I’m really thankful. Yeah. Well, and we love being with all the teachers at, at Evergreen, and I… How do I wanna say this? We’ve, we’ve really enjoyed being with all the teachers at Evergreen, and- But don’t, yeah What was that? I was gonna say, but just don’t, we’ve been very good at not saying when I’ve been in Evergreen.

So sorry, I was just as well just gonna say a date or anything. Don’t worry, don’t worry. Ignore me, ignore me. Sorry. Okay. I’ll ignore you ’cause I don’t know what you’re saying. Okay. So thank you so much for sharing, and we have really enjoyed working with Evergreen and look forward to the continued work we get to do with all the teachers there, and it really is amazing.

One of the things that Matt and I have talked about is that good teaching is creative teaching, and creative teaching is good teaching. And I think so many teachers don’t see that in th- in themselves because they have misconceptions of what creativity is. And so it’s wonderful when we hear from teachers like yourselves who are doing all these amazing things and creative things in the classroom and recognize, like, “Hey, wait, I’m already doing this, and maybe I could even do it a little bit more.”

So thank you so much for coming on the show to share your stories with us today. Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you for having us. And Matt, do you wanna take us out, or you want me to take us out? I am taking us out. I think it’s better you, yeah, take us out. Okay. So thank you first, thank you so much for joining us on this episode of the Feeling Creativity in Education podcast.