What if making more room for creativity in the classroom could not only support academic achievement across STEM subjects but make learning more enjoyable along the way? In today’s episode, we’ll explore research into creativity interventions and their impact on student learning, including evidence of improved test scores across STEM subjects.

We will also discuss the value of building fun and enjoyment into these learning experiences before turning to something far harder to measure: intuition. What is intuition? Where does it come from? And should we be doing more to help students trust it? It’s a conversation that connects closely with Enjoy the Ride, one of the 10 actions in our new book, The Future Creative: 10 Actions for Fueling Creativity in Education, which is available to pre-order now ahead of its release next week.

Because creativity isn’t just about the outcome, it’s also about creating learning experiences that students want to engage in, explore, and enjoy. So what can the research tell us about creativity, enjoyment, and the power of trusting your gut? We’ll explore all of this and more with Professor Leonie Bordicchio.  Hello everyone. My name is Dr. Matthew Worwood. And my name is Dr. Cindy Burnett. This is the Fueling Creativity in Education podcast. On this podcast, we’ll be talking about various creativity topics and how they relate to the field of education. We’ll be talking with scholars, educators, and resident experts about their work, challenges they face, and exploring new perspectives of creativity.

All with the goal to help fuel a more rich and informed discussion that provides teachers, administrators, and emerging scholars with the information they need to infuse creativity into teaching and learning. So let’s begin

 Hello, and welcome back to another episode of the Fueling Creativity in Education podcast. We are now fully underway of the new academic year, and of course, that means that we are fully into our season 13 of the show and welcoming guests to have wonderful conversations around creativity and how it all relates to education.

And in today’s show,

We welcome Professor Leone Baldacchino, who is an academic at the Edward de Bono Institute for Creative Thinking and Innovation at the University of Malta. Leonie’s research sits at the intersection of creativity, entrepreneurship, intuition, innovation, and entrepreneurial cognition, with particular interest in how people generate and evaluate new ventures. She’s also a fellow of the International Society for the Study of Creativity and Innovation, and Malta’s OECD expert on inclusive entrepreneurship.  Professor Leonie, welcome to the show 

Thank you very much, Matthew. Thank you for the warm welcome 

It’s a pleasure and we’re really excited to get you on the show, and one of the things that we actually thought we could dive right into is a conversation around STEM and divergent thinking, because we’ve certainly on the show have spoken a lot about STEM.

In fact, I think we’ve even got a collection on our website around STEM and creativity episodes. But we haven’t really had the opportunity to talk about the relationship with creativity and STEM with a creativity researcher. So I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about some of the work that you’ve done, empirical work around the study of STEM and its relationship to creativity, particularly when it comes to generating ideas 

So first of all, Matthew and Cindy, thank you very much for the invitation. I’m very pleased to be, a guest on your excellent podcast. Yes. Well, one of my studies with the colleagues here at the University of Malta, conducted a few years ago, involved around 400 secondary school students. So we gathered data from these kids at the beginning of the scholastic year in, October. Here in Malta, the scholastic year starts in October, again at the end of the scholastic year in, around June. there were several, , different angles to the study. So one of the angles was actually, exploring the, , impact of an arts-based intervention, which is why we had the pre-test and the post-test.

So about, , half the students were in the test group where they had exposure to, what we call the creative, program. So they had creative practitioners attending at their schools, and they had, different artistic creative activities. And the control group were, matched obviously in terms of age, gender and whatever, but they did not have the same exposure during that, test period, to the project And the findings from that study were quite eye-opening, because unfortunately, we found that from the beginning to the end of the year, there was a general, an overall decline in the creative thinking scores measured by divergent thinking tests, of the whole cohort.

So, you know, this kind of, speaks to the debate of do skills, kill creativity? And the argument might be that, well, yes, since all of the students, demonstrated a decline, that does seem to be the case. However, there are obviously different, explanations in addition to, blaming the schools.

So for example, one of the alternative reasons that we could think of was that, at the beginning of the year, they had just come in from the summer holidays, the summer breaks. So actually all kids might have been more exposed to ex-extracurricular activities. They were more relaxed. Whereas at the end of the year, they were actually stressed out because they had exams. So that might have had an impact. But on the bright side, what we did find was that the test groups of the students who did, participate in the creative program, performed better than the non-participants, than the control group. So that,, indicates that, engagement throughout the academic year in creative activities, is a buffer, at least against, the overall decline that we observed. where does STEM come into all this? , As part of the study, we also explored the students’, engagement in STEM subjects.

So how many STEM subjects were they studying, and at what level? And interestingly, also we studied their level of enjoyment. How much did they, enjoy, their STEM subjects? what we found through regression analysis is that the students who engaged in a larger number of, , STEM subjects and enjoyed this engagement more actually did much better on the divergent thinking, , tests than their counterparts. So this was quite an interesting, we found,, we thought, , finding because very often, , there is this divide between the arts and creativity and STEM. So some people tend to associate creativity only with the arts, and they tend to associate STEM with more logical, , you know, mathematical thinking.

Whereas in our study, we, we show that actually,, engaging in artistic, , creativity, participating in divergent thinking, and also studying and enjoying STEM are, , highly associated 

Now, it’s really interesting, Leonie, because I have a real passion for bridging the art and the science of creativity, and that comes from, I have a background in the performing arts, and then I did a master of science degree in creativity, and they were,, they felt like two different things. So I agree with you that, that there needs to be more connections, and I love to see you building that connection in the research.

So I have some clarification questions on that. In terms of the creative activities, were those artistic activities that they were doing? Did all the students get STEM, or did just the students in the experimental group? 

The students in the experimental group participated in the creative activities, which were primarily arts-based, but all students had exposure to STEM because in, , secondary schools in Malta, all students have to study at least,, one or two STEM subjects. But then as electives, as optional , credits, , or subjects, they can select,, more STEM subjects than others, and that is where then the findings or the variations came in

It’s really fascinating because I would think that if you’re looking at a traditional STEM program, there’s so much problem-solving that goes into STEM programs that it would have covered all of the students that took those courses. So if all of the students in the groups were taking STEM courses at the middle school,

So I honestly am, am very surprised that those levels of creativity didn’t go up, because when I sit in a STEM classroom, I see so much creativity happening. So were you surprised at those results?

So what we found was actually that students who engage in more STEM subjects

Yep.

better at creativity.

Got it. So they

So there is a positive relationship. So obviously, as you were saying,, the more STEM subjects that a student, , takes, the more problem-solving is involved. , The more the creative thinking aspect, the creative problem-solving, the divergent thinking is, , is also developed, hence the, , higher association

and Leonie, just to, to clarify something because, to something that Cindy and I have spoken about, we, we see so much creativity in STEM classes, and there’s this kind of conversation, is STEM its own discipline? But in your research, when you’re saying STEM subjects, you’re talking about the fact that you were actually comparing the creativity in STEM subjects, therefore, you were looking at how students were performing in, for example, an earth science class or a math class.

Is that correct?

No, we were actually, , trying to understand whether students who take more STEM-related subjects at school, be they chemistry, biology, physics, , technology-related subjects, , if they actually perform better on the divergent thinking tests than the, students who do not take as many of those, , STEM-related subjects. And the regressions that I referred to earlier were actually taken at T1. So at that point, there was no difference between the test group and the control group. The difference between the test group and the control group only came in at T2 after the intervention had, , been introduced to the test group

now, Leonie, I’m really fascinated about the data and STEM But, like, there’s some things that you said at the very beginning that just got me really excited from a conversation perspective. Because first things first, cindy and I are always talking about how many activities you kind of bring in designed to facilitate just Like, just stop there. Just have fun. And it sounds to me , that you’re kind of alluding to the possibility that just being in a situation where you’ve had a little bit of fun is gonna potentially support some divergent thinking and some really good work.

So it kind of suggests that even if maybe some people don’t like icebreakers, if we actually can get them just to commit to having fun, it’s actually a significant benefit to that.  

So yes,, , at T1, at the beginning of the academic year, as part of the study in relation to STEM, but also,, the one, , where we studied the impact , of the creative intervention, we found that students who in summer participated in more extracurricular activities already started to show higher levels of creativity than their counterparts at the end of summer, so at the beginning of the scholastic year, which,, supports what you have just been saying, Matt, that, having fun likely associated with higher levels of creativity. And when you think about the research that shows,, a positive association between creativity and wellbeing, , is quite widely published nowadays, and that goes completely against, , the artist stereotype, if you like, right? Because we have also in the past read about, dark and tragic stories of, , creative individuals who have unfortunately been afflicted by a variety of disorders, including,, depression, bipolar, schizophrenia, substance abuse. , But actually, you know, many creative individuals are well-adjusted and love what they do. So there is also this possibly a two-way relationship between enjoyment, between having fun, between wellbeing and creativity, , being in, a positive frame of mind can lead to higher levels of creativity. And actually, on the other hand, engaging in creative activities can lead to higher levels of wellbeing

Mm. And it just reminds me of Matt and I are just finished a book, and it’s called The Future Creative, and one of our actions is enjoy the ride. And I think so often for teachers, especially at the end of the school year, not only are the students burned out, but the teachers are burned out as well.

So I’m curious, , and I know this episode will be released at the start of the school year, and Matt talked about doing fun things. But what would you recommend for educators at the end of the school year when they are feeling burned out, and for the students to help increase , their creativity and boost their wellbeing at a time when it’s so critical?

That is a really good question, Cindy, because I am an educator as well, and I also, you know, feel the pressure towards the end of the year to make sure that we’ve covered everything that the students, , should be learning and that the learning outcomes, , been, have been reached, and they’re well prepared for their exams or assignments or presentations or whatever. so, you know, I can really empathize with all the teachers and also with the students who feel the pressure. it’s important to remind ourselves on a daily basis, if necessary, that, as I said before, well-being is a very important, , determinant of creativity and also vice versa. tool that I find extremely useful is mindfulness. I am a great fan, a great believer of mindfulness meditation. I, , actually speak about this, , in class with my students, and I introduce them to, , different mindfulness practices, and I encourage them , to practice as often as they can, you know, without, , self-imposing then additional pressure to make sure that they’ve done the practice, because that can then be counterproductive. , But yes, in terms of what would I advise, it’s remind yourselves that, , it’s not just about , achieving targets and meeting goals, but it’s also about self-care, , and well-being

So Leonie, if you could give us a strategy right now to practice mindfulness, what would you do, and what would you do with your, or what would you do with your students?

So with mindfulness, it’s about, , being conscious of the present moment in a non-judgmental manner. as human beings, our minds are naturally programmed , to wander. we- either thinking about the past or ruminating about the past or thinking about, , planning, thinking about the future. Whereas being in the present moment is quite difficult without practice. So mindfulness in itself is a practice. There are different, , tools that, , students and teachers can utilize to practice mindfulness. There are various books , that have been published, and there are also many apps that can be downloaded on, , smartphones , can help, , guide, anybody who would like to begin either as a, you know, either as a beginner or even for somebody who’s more advanced and perhaps would like to get back into mindfulness.

, Then it’s entirely up to, , each individual to find either to find their own, , preferred way of practicing mindfulness, or they can join… There are also classes that, , people can join either through the apps or perhaps, , in the community with qualified mindfulness teachers.

And if I was just kind of like taking this away, I think  terms of the theme, it does seem very relevant to those teachers who are teaching STEM subjects, the science, the math. Because , from your research perspective, you’re referencing it’s not just about the assessments, and we feel that pressure of time. We feel that pressure to focus on those final outcomes, those deliverables of did the students demonstrate mastery in my subject? I’m hearing is that while we are dealing with that pressure and to cram in more and more content, your research is actually saying if you dedicate some time, not every day, but during the week, some type of interventions focused on whether it’s mindfulness or joy or other type of interventions that can actually promote some fun and divergent thinking, actually you may see improvement in your test scores. And so it’s, it’s not just a case of it’s not an add-on. This is something that can benefit you. But of course, have to commit to it. You have to be a teacher that’s actually willing to commit to it. 

Sometimes what I do is I dedicate, three minutes even at the end of a lecture so that we can wrap up with a mindfulness, , breathing session. I say, “Okay, guys, , bear with me. You know, It might not appear to be for everyone, but research shows that there are benefits, including, sleeping better, uh, better mood, , concentration and focus.”

And of course, those will, directly or indirectly have a positive impact , on performance, including aca-academic performance

I will do a sidebar, and I know I’ve mentioned this before, , but I have deadlines of 9:00 PM, and I tell my students I’m not accepting work past 9:00 PM for, for exactly what you just said. It’s like I do not wanna do anything that leads a student to reducing their sleep. , And I genuinely have said to them, “I’d rather you take 24 to 48 hours and deliver something of quality as opposed to cramming something in those final hours where you’re then not sleeping, you’re grumpy, you’re not probably producing very good work, because what’s the point?

Why are we here?” , And there’s these little interventions that we can do. I’m sitting here thinking that maybe I used to think I bring fun with my humor, but no one really laughs at my jokes, so I’m assuming that doesn’t count, right? Like you’re trying to bring in fun through jokes, but if they don’t find it funny, they’re not really getting the benefit, right?

Well, maybe they’re laughing internally without, , showing you outwardly that they’re enjoying it.

I will tell myself that when I see the rolling of the eyes next time  

 

All right, Leonia. I know you’ve done some work around intuition, as I was telling Matt, and I don’t think, Matt, we’ve ever talked about this, but I actually did my doctoral work on the role of intuition in creative problem-solving. So I thought it would be a great time to talk about intuition and when you should trust your gut

That’s a loaded question that I could talk about for ages. And, , Cindy, I think you and I could have a very long conversation about

Mm-hmm.

When can you trust your gut? Okay, so let’s break this down a little bit, shall we? What do we mean by when can we trust your gut? Intuition. What is intuition? Intuition has many different definitions. , The way I define intuition, because of my background mainly studying intuition in entrepreneurship, is, , effectively charged, , judgments, so decision-making based on, , that gut feeling. That is linked, however, that is based on domain-specific experience and expertise. So it’s not just a wild guess, right? , It’s not a gamble And the short answer to when can you trust your gut is if you have an appropriate amount of domain-specific expertise. So this implies that novices be intuitive, they are less likely to rely on their intuition, and they are less likely to produce, reliable intuitive judgments than the more experienced or more– their more expert counterparts. So in a study I had conducted with,, startup,, entrepreneurs and more experienced entrepreneurs, so I had a sample of, , entrepreneurs with different levels of experience. They were all based in the ICT industry, so at least we, , we standardized, so to speak, the domain. All right? So we could, , distinguish between, , different levels of expertise in relation to the same domain. We found that, , entrepreneurs who had started up multiple businesses in that same industry, in the ICT industry, able to be more intuitive their decision-making, but also more analytical at the same

Mm-hmm.

or what we call more cognitively versatile. So cognitive versatility is the ability of not over-relying on your intuition to the exclusion of, , your processing, actually deploying them both depending on the task at hand.

Novices tended to be much more analytical, and as a result of being more intuitive and more cognitively versatile, the expert entrepreneurs were able to generate a larger number of startup-related ideas, and those ideas were also, , rated as more innovative. the novices were relying more on their analysis, and that led to,, a fewer number of, , startup ideas, and those ideas tended to be less innovative

You know, just, just to put this into a classroom environment as in a teacher, and Cindy, I’d also really be interested in your, your view on this. I’m thinking about that teacher that’s just come out of teacher training, got their classroom for the first time, teachers can be very entrepreneurial, right?

Coming up with new solutions that have significant value. They may not necessarily be making money off them, or perhaps they might now. , But like they tend to… Are they, to a certain extent, putting into practice all of the things that they were taught, all of their sample lessons, all of the things that they observed? And it takes time for them to recognize their school culture, their classroom environment. Maybe they trained for grade seven and find themselves in grade four, and new teachers need those few years they can develop the expertise to go with their gut, start making changes and modifications to what they were told to do, and then we start seeing that creativity flourish.

And, I’ve always been mindful of the fact that, that obviously teachers that have more experience, sometimes we talk a lot about them being stuck in their ways, but actually they can also be very creative because they’re able to take their new ideas and apply them to their existing practice, apply them to everything that they already know and understand about their classroom. , And I suppose my message in, in all of this is that , we might need to give new teachers time before they can really go out and do new things. And also new teachers listening need to be able to give themselves the time they need to develop the experience and knowledge needed for, to have that, that gut feeling and that intuition.

Yes, absolutely. It’s all about,, practice. It’s all about,, internalizing, , what begins as, , explicit, , knowledge. initially, we do, whether it’s teaching, whether it’s starting up businesses, whether it’s, , generating ideas and being creative, at the start where and when we’re still, , learning, when we’re still at the novice stage, we need to do– we generally do things, , consciously and deliberately, right?

So, , once we then practice, we gradually internalize that, and it becomes more automatic, is why the old– the intuition is more of an automatic response because it is based, again, on, , a large, , amount of, , domain relevant experience and expertise that can be tapped into in a non-conscious, automatic fashion. So in the early stages, yes, teachers, entrepreneurs, , students, , need to give themselves time to, , practice until that practice gradually becomes internalized and, , and automated

Mm-hmm. So , I’m really enjoying this conversation, and , it’s interesting because I, as I mentioned, , my research was around the role of intuition in creative problem-solving process. So I spent five years working on this sort of qualitative study of what is the role, and, it’s really… What I found was really quite simple, which is intuition is just another data point, and when you have that, you know, intuitive feeling, it’s not that you trust it or that you don’t trust it.

It’s just another… It’s something that just says, “Hey, we need to find out more information.” So, you know, I walk into a classroom, and, I sense the student is disconnected. I sense the student doesn’t like me for some reason. I sense that the student is just, you know… And then as I use it as a data point, I go, “All right.

Why do I feel this way?” You know, “Why do I feel this intuition around the student?” And then I think, “Okay, s- he’s looking out the window. He’s not paying attention to me. Okay, so what do I need to do to find out and validate if that’s correct?” I go and have a conversation with him, and I sit down and I say, you know, “I just wanna talk with you and check in.

I notice you’re, you’re looking out the window.” I identify his behaviors, and then he says, “Yeah, I’m dealing with my mother , who’s dying of cancer, and it’s a really hard time right now.” And it shifts this whole intuitive feeling into gather data, gather data, gather data, find out the information, and be able to make the decision I need to make.

And so I think, you know, for teachers out there listening, , that is a really powerful tool is, you know, especially as you mentioned, having that domain expertise. If, if you’ve been in the classroom for 20 years, you’ve seen most types of students. So if you see something and you go, “Ooh, I’ve seen this before,” it’s very easy to get judgmental.

And I think, I don’t know about you, Leonie, but I know in, in working with people around intuition, the biggest thing I found is those who think they are the most intuitive are also the most judgmental. So they would say things like, “Oh, I’m very intuitive.” And then I would watch them judge something that was so like, “Oh, and did you see that person?

They came…” And I’m like, “Whoa, that was…” And, and it really struck me how easily we can trust our gut, and really that gut feeling is just strong judgment around something, either positive or negative. And that can be dangerous when it comes to creativity. You know, it’s like, so if we take it as just here is a point of reference, and let’s build on that reference and gather more data so we can understand it, then, then we can be more successful in our problem-solving.

Cindy, what you described with the, with the student, that is a, a perfect example of, , cognitive versatility. So you started off with the intuition,

Yeah

side of things. You didn’t just go on your gut, which in that case might have led you astray

Right

in that, you know, might have just, , gone on your assumptions that the student doesn’t like you for some reason.

mhm

But rather than, you felt that something was off, and you took, , additional steps to figure out based on the information that there was available or that the student was willing to share with you what the problem was. Now, in the context of entrepreneurship, that can sometimes take place, but also in the context of, , education in a classroom,

うん。 うん。 Matt,

available or isn’t forthcoming or if there isn’t enough time for that information to be obtained and analyzed, evaluated, then the individual has really no choice but to trust their gut, which is why it’s important for that domain expertise to be nurtured and developed, , as soon as possible. , Now how can that be done? , Know, , there are practice exercises. Again, so I’m a big fan of practice, okay? I’m a big fan of practicing creativity. Creativity is a skill, and the more we practice, the better we become. , As we say, practice makes perfect. But also, as I said before, practice makes more than perfect.

Actually, practice ensures that the learning becomes internalized, becomes automated. All right? So it’s then more trustworthy in a way. And that also, I think, applies to, , intuition. And, , many years ago, we used to believe that, , you have to wait for 10 years, you know, the 10-year rule, to become an expert, and well, there might be some truth to that, but it doesn’t have to be a full 10 years if you engage in deliberate practice, in your domain in order to speed up the process of obtaining expertise and the benefits that come with it

 Hey, Leonie, we are out of time, but we have our final question for you, which is, what was your most creative educational experience, either formal or informal, and why? And can you tell us the details of this experience and what impact it had on you?

 Okay. Well, I think I was always a creative student because,

Mm-hmm.

, When I was in what in Malta we call primary school, , I remember receiving a, a prize for creativity, and I still have the little book with, , a prize for creativity. But it didn’t really mean much back then, you know? I was happy that I received the prize, but I didn’t really know why I was receiving it. years down the line, I, after I did my undergraduate degree in psychology, I had, discovered the Edward de Bono Institute, where I am, , now an academic, of course. at the time the institute had started a new master’s in creativity and innovation, it immediately, piqued my interest, and I enrolled, and I joined. And obviously most of the course was related to, , creative thinking, , creativity more broadly, theories, practice, innovation, entrepreneurship. And the then director of the institute, Professor Sandra Dingli, , used to teach – quite a few of the lectures., Towards the end of, of the course, I was doing my dissertation. , She had started a project on, , an EU-funded project, an Erasmus project, , she had asked me if I wanted to be involved. And she had also asked me if I wished to deliver a few undergraduate lectures, and at that point I was like, “Who, me, lecturing? I can’t lecture. It’s not…” You know? It was literally never on the books. I had never imagined myself to be, , a person who would stand in front of a classroom and teach. But I I also always had the, , mindset of try everything once, so I said, “Okay, yeah, why not?” I guess back then Sandra saw the potential, , I could be doing this as a career. She saw something in me that I didn’t. And in fact, from the very first moment that I stepped into a classroom, the very first five minutes, I was like, “I love this. I wanna do this for the rest of my life.”

And here I am. So Sandra, I tell you this over and over again, thank you so much.

Uh

It’s a fantastic story. and so much centered around trust there as well, and build relationships, which is a chapter in our book. But before I do our final takeout, Leone, thank you so much for joining us today. This was a, a wonderful conversation, a wonderful conversation to kick off what is still counts as the new year. Now, before we go, we have some super-duper exciting news to share. Our new book, The Future Creative 10 Actions for Fueling Creativity in Education, is coming out next week. Like next week. Today’s Tuesday, and next Tuesday it’s coming out, and it’s– that means it’s also available for pre-order on Amazon and other retailers. And you can also go on our website, fuelingcreativitypodcast.com, where we’ve got some convenient links for you there. So if you enjoy the conversations we’ve had here on the Fueling 📍 Creativity in Education podcast over the last five years, do go and check out this book, because everything we’ve learned, including all of the wonderful guests like Leone, shared all of these ideas and research, is all packed into that book.

And if you enjoy it, of course, leave us a review. My name’s Dr. Matthew Worwood

My name is Dr. Cindy Burnett