Raya Bidshahri:
So we don’t have any time bound, paper bound kind of traditional standardized tests that we do. All of our assessments are project based. We do some formative knowledge check kind of assessments that are low stake, that are completely open book to ensure the foundational knowledge domains and some foundation applications are kind of being evidenced throughout the learning journey. But majority of the assessments are project based assessments.

Matthew Worwood:
Hello everyone. My name is Doctor Matthew Worwood.

Cyndi Burnett:
And my name is Doctor Cindy Burnett.

Matthew Worwood:
This is the fuelling Creativity in Education podcast.

Cyndi Burnett:
On this podcast, we’ll be talking about various creativity topics and how they relate to the field of education.

Matthew Worwood:
We’ll be talking with scholars, educators, and resident experts about their work, challenges they face, and exploring new perspectives of creativity.

Cyndi Burnett:
All with a goal to help fuel a more rich and informed discussion that provides teachers, administrators, and emerging scholars with the information they need to infuse creativity into teaching and learning.

Matthew Worwood:
So let’s begin. Hello and welcome to another episode of the fuelling Creativity in Education podcast. We’re now doing season nine. And if you believe education needs to shift from standardized testing and a one size fits all curriculum to perhaps a curiosity driven, real world learning and personalized curriculum experience, you’re going to love today’s episode.

Cyndi Burnett:
So today we welcome to the show Raya Becharide, who is a serial entrepreneur and award winning educator. Raya is the founder and chief executive officer of the School of Humanity, an award winning online high school with an innovative learning model and interdisciplinary curriculum. At School of Humanity, learners from over ten countries across five continents develop their skills, mindsets, and behaviors by tackling real world challenges. Raya has been featured by the BBC as one of the hundred most influential and inspiring women globally. Congratulations. She was the main award winner for the Next Generation Foresight Practitioners award. Organized by the School of International Futures and supported by the omittier network, this award recognizes those whose leadership efforts shape the future and improve lives. Welcome to the show, Raya.

Raya Bidshahri:
Thank you for having me.

Cyndi Burnett:
So we would love to begin by having you share how you came up with this idea for the school of humanity.

Raya Bidshahri:
Yes. So really, the decision to start a school like school of humanity came out of my own frustrations with the education system. I like many learners who come to us now. I was someone who loved learning but really struggled with the traditional schooling system. I had my phases in life, the phase where I was doing really well in school and the phase where I wasn’t. And one of the things that was correlated with the phase where I struggled in school was when I was actually learning by doing actual projects so towards the end of my high school experience, I discovered entrepreneurship. I discovered just, you know, doing internships and working on real world things. And that became so much more incentivizing for me than memorizing for tests, which meant my grades took a hit.

Raya Bidshahri:
And so I still stuck with the formal education system for a while. I went on to university to study neuroscience, and it took me a few more years from there to really come to grips with the fact that I’m deeply frustrated with the state of our education system. And one of the ways I could channel that frustration is to try to do something about it. So I first tried to tackle the challenge from an extracurricular perspective in developing something that could supplement the existing system. Worked on that for a few years, and while I learned a lot, that didn’t necessarily solve the problem from its core. And so School of Humanity was ideated and launched between 2020 and 2021. Really coming from this place of years of frustration and engagement with the system and a desire to create something that’s truly an alternative for our learners.

Matthew Worwood:
And just to follow up, because you’re referencing a personal story, obviously, this idea of personalized instruction seemed to be a core pillar within your school. There’s different interpretations of personalized learning. So I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about that and perhaps how that personal experience might relate in some way to student curiosity and creativity.

Raya Bidshahri:
Absolutely. I think there’s different levels of personalization that can happen in a school context and to some extent happen as well as school of humanity. So, for example, you could have the personalization of choice, giving learners the option of actually truly choosing what they want to study and learn. You can give personalization of modality, the optionality for learners to choose how they learn, whether it’s through written or text or online versus in person. You can even do personalization of assessments to give learners the opportunity and choice of how they evidence their learning. And we do a bit of everything at the school of humanity model. And one of the things I would say is a balancing act is allowing for enough open endedness for curiosity to thrive, but also balancing it with some structure, some predetermined end goals or standards, as well as requirements at a national level or university level. And our experience as a school has been, you actually need a bit of both.

Raya Bidshahri:
A lot of times, giving learners 100% freedom to operate from a pure place of curiosity doesn’t actually work out. We tend to romanticize that a little bit. So we’ve tried to do a bit of both in our school.

Cyndi Burnett:
So can you give us an example of a project that a student might do in your school?

Raya Bidshahri:
Absolutely. So before I go into the projects, a little bit about the model and curriculum. So, essentially, at its core, we follow a challenge based learning model. So every term, learners choose between different challenges that they want to embark on. Examples of challenges include understanding minds, future of the Internet, protecting our oceans, which is when we’re doing this term, food, energy, water, security. So, as you can hear, these challenges are designed to be interdisciplinary. They’re not like just tackling the challenge from the lens of one subject. Yeah, you look at it from the lens of many different disciplines, as you have to.

Raya Bidshahri:
And the way that the term is structured is in the first half of the term, it’s very much educator led. Educators are guiding learners through an interdisciplinary investigation of the challenge. And then in the second half of the term, learners begin to identify problems that they want to focus on, and they’re guided to analyze it and then develop a solution to that. We also end every term with a micro internship, and learners also supplement their learning with units that are more depth rather than the breadth of the challenges. So that’s where they go even deeper into kind of project based learning and going deeper into specific disciplinary areas. Really, there’s every term our learners produce a lot of amazing projects, and solutions are actually listed on our website. So if you go on our website and go under the showcase and learner projects, you’ll see examples. We’ve had learners develop entrepreneurial solutions, technological ones, artistic ones, research based ones, and they get an opportunity to do so every term, which is just wonderful.

Matthew Worwood:
Now, with your knowledge, I was wondering if you could expand a little bit around project based learning and to a certain extent, the scaffolding strategy that clearly you’ve incorporated within the curriculum, because project based learning is certainly a very popular topic on the fueling creativity in education podcast. And through my experience implementing it, it can be implemented really well, and it can be sometimes implemented not so well. And I think you’re really right in talking about the kind of structure that you need around these projects, because if you don’t have any structure to your point and just let students choose everything, they sometimes don’t even have the skills necessarily to operate in that environment. So I understand that there’s some challenges within the k through twelve curriculum. Could you kind of give some ideas or guidance for teachers k twelve teachers who implement project based learning environments and some of the things that they should be thinking about to improve that experience, particularly when it comes to all students.

Raya Bidshahri:
It’S a really good question. And full transparency. We are constantly iterating on it based on feedback as well. So I’m going to give two examples of scaffolding. One that is a bit more structured and one that’s a bit more open ended. So with our skill units, they’re almost entirely pre designed by our educators. They’re hands on, but there’s very clear structure and the way that we approach it. As educators, we actually use backwards design.

Raya Bidshahri:
So we start with the learning outcomes, right? What is the key kind of set of outcomes we want learners to get to? And then we ask ourselves, what is the real world project that would evidence these outcomes? So if you have learning outcomes around critical thinking and logical reasoning, what is an example of an artifact that could potentially give the learners an opportunity to meet those outcomes? And then from there you work the scaffolding backwards. And what we’ve done in our project based kind of units is we actually have a combination of content and hands on activities, because that foundational knowledge is still really critical before they have an opportunity to apply it. So in every module they might have a bit of content, like a ten minute video or an article or even something our educators designed with some interactive knowledge check of whether it’s MCQ or matching, just to make sure that foundational knowledge is sinking in. And then they get a chance to now apply that knowledge into the project and it’s mapped out step by step for that project with the knowledge piece and the hands on kind of application piece. And so that’s been really key, ensuring that scaffolding is there. And so far what I’ve described is the purely asynchronous bit. Learners often still need one on one support or it’s workshops around it. Ideally to also have that synchronous piece of a project where they get to collaborate with peers, ask questions, clear doubts and so on.

Raya Bidshahri:
So that’s project based learning as we’ve applied it. Challenge based learning, on the other hand, has more open endedness. So we didn’t develop challenge based learning. There’s a website out there called challengebasedlearning.org that has lots of amazing resources. Apple actually pioneered the framework and the model, and it has three phases to it. It’s the first phase is engage, where you start just learning about the challenge as much as possible, engaging with big ideas, exploring the themes. Then you go into investigate, which is where you identify under this big challenge, smaller challenges, sub challenges and the problem analysis, and then act, where you act on the challenge and develop projects and solutions as you can imagine, as I’m sure you and other educators have experienced, some learners thrive in that open endedness. Some learners really struggle and need more iterations of structured projects before they can actually succeed in a more open ended challenge.

Raya Bidshahri:
So those are just two examples of frameworks and scaffolding.

Cyndi Burnett:
Thank you. That was really helpful. Can you help us define creativity skills in your core curriculum in the human literacies framework?

Raya Bidshahri:
Absolutely. So you mentioned the human literacies framework, and for anyone that isn’t aware, we decided not to adopt any of the existing exam based or standardized kind of curriculum out there. Instead, we created our own standards called the human literacies. And it came from the definition of the OECD of literacy being a combination of knowledge, skills and mindsets. And there’s eight key literacies. And the human literacies framework includes things like discovery, thought, creativity, of course, quantitative skills, technology, flourishing society, and so on. Under the creativity umbrella, there’s a combination of, let’s say, more traditional creative skills, whether it’s visual and literary analysis or creative expression, as well as some things that maybe you don’t often see in a school’s like arts or creativity curriculum, which includes features thinking idea and product building within features thinking. We also do imagination skills.

Raya Bidshahri:
And so really the idea is to expand the idea of this creative skills beyond just the arts, towards other applications and entrepreneurship and future studies and so on.

Matthew Worwood:
And if you don’t mind, because there’s more and more people talking about this idea of future thinking, and I think it’s so important because I want to say what we spent 20 years referencing the same thing, hey, we’re educating students for jobs that don’t exist yet. We’ve been saying that for 20 years. Right? So I think we need to acknowledge that. We all know that. But I think future thinking is kind of a new iteration of that conversation. And one of the things that I kind of like about it is it actually is challenging the students to forecast some of the problems that they’re going to have to be addressing. But in addition, obviously thinking about some of the technology skills and also just non technology skills that they’re going to need to acquire in order to address those problems. So could you talk a little bit more about that and perhaps, again, how that might relate to, you know, an educator listening and how they might adopt some of that in their classroom?

Raya Bidshahri:
Exactly. I think you’re spot on. When we think about futures, foresight and future readiness, there’s two approaches one could take, right. One, you could try to forecast what the jobs of the future are what the skills of the future and then upskill. Or there’s a third approach, which is also really. Or second approach, rather, that’s also really interesting, is around what kind of a future do we want to create? And I think we don’t talk about that enough in our education systems, and it’s something that we encourage our learners to think about. There’s a really inspiring quote from the ruler of Dubai where he says, the future belongs to those who can imagine it, design it, and execute it. It’s not something you await.

Raya Bidshahri:
It’s something you create. And so that’s where the intersection with creativity and this idea of creation comes in is helping learners understand that the future actually isn’t set in stone, both for themselves and the world, and they can imagine it, envision it, and then work a plan towards that future. And so that’s where that is really powerful. And luckily, I think futures thinking and adaptive foresight as a discipline has become advanced enough that there’s a lot of interesting frameworks and research levels of foresight, from organizational to personal to global, that you can actually start to introduce to learners and help them apply that into their own communities and their own lives.

Cyndi Burnett:
This is really fascinating, Raya, and I feel like our listeners are probably asking the question, so how do you assess these students?

Raya Bidshahri:
So we don’t have any time bound, paper bound, kind of traditional standardized tests that we do. All of our assessments are project based. We do some formative knowledge check kind of assessments that are low stake, you know, a completely open book to ensure the foundational knowledge domains and some foundation applications are kind of being evidenced throughout the learning journey. But majority of the assessments are project based assessments. So in the challenges I described earlier in the projects units that we do, there’s always those projects that learners are working on. There’s rubrics that are developed for those projects that are linked to learning outcomes, and learners are given, you know, feedback against those rubrics under, let’s say, graded against those rubrics. We also ensure that learners can do those projects as many times as they wish, or there’s way more than one opportunity to evidence a set of outcomes in different areas and projects. And ultimately, we do a combination of a traditional GPA transcript that’s informed by these project based assessments and a portfolio based transcript as well.

Matthew Worwood:
Just listening to you, and not just that response, but everything that you’ve shared in this interview, I kind of sit here and I say to myself, a significant aspect of your success and inspiring work really comes from the implementation piece. And the reason why I bring that up is that sometimes we kind of, like, have a dislike for any type of tests. But as you stated with the reverse design approach, you’ve identified clear objectives to which you want your students to demonstrate and know. And obviously, throughout your framework, you need to test to a certain extent how those students are doing in terms of their knowledge acquisition. Particularly when we’re talking about conversations about scaffolding, if we’re going to go and engage them in a challenge based environment, we’re going to want them to have some knowledge. And it’s just like you’re training a pilot to go and take over flying Boeing 7747, you’re going to want to go and continue to test them in the simulator to make sure that they can handle different situations in the event it comes up. I think what I really like about what you’re sharing within your implementation is exactly that, is that the tests are there to inform the instructors and make sure they’ve acquired the knowledge needed to take those next steps on. So this is kind of like a bigger question, and it might not be that you can necessarily address this, but when we’re just talking about implementation in general, it’s not as if tests are bad, and it’s not as if some of the literature or best practices that exist within traditional education are bad.

Matthew Worwood:
But sometimes the way it’s implemented and then how that culture manifests around that implementation is what’s bad. So how might we address some of those challenges? Because the things that we’re doing aren’t necessarily bad, but the meaning and weight and culture that exists around them, I think, is more of the problem.

Raya Bidshahri:
I’m really glad you mentioned implementation, because it’s something I keep falling back to, is so much of what we do is execution. There’s very little proprietary about everything I’m describing. Everyone knows about project based, challenge based, interdisciplinary, and so on. Education, and we’ve been talking about for, as you said, more than 20 years about what education should be. We should have personalized learning, and these buzz words have been around for a really long time. But actually implementing a full school vision that is truly aligned with these pedagogies is the hard part, and it boils down to execution. It’s something I keep reminding my team on why we need to be super organized, because this is ultimately what it boils down to. I think some of the things I’ve seen go wrong, let’s say, with project based learning in other many different contexts, is one.

Raya Bidshahri:
There’s actually different ways of doing it. And different things work for different learners depending on your general student body. So we generally do have more self motivated learners. You know, there’s obviously different levels and a spectrum of curiosity, and some of them need more accountability than others. But being an online school, we really do rely on that because we’re not there to supervise them physically. We do rely on a certain baseline level of enthusiasm for learning and parent involvement. Right. So we probably can do a bit more open ended challenges and projects, and maybe some other schools can.

Raya Bidshahri:
So I think contextualizing the framework and the scaffolding is really key. Also, if there isn’t a system level solution towards projects, it’s very tough to get the system to take it seriously. So a lot of times schools will try to do project based learning on the side. Like, you’ll have your core kind of a levels or IB, and maybe we’ll do this fun project once a term. And it’s kind of like an economic system. If there aren’t incentives to drive certain behaviors, you know, if that’s not ending up on the same transcript, people just don’t take it seriously. And then the last thing I’ll share about implementation that we all need to work on is project based assessments are very difficult to scale. They require a lot more customized feedback for each learner, and they take more time.

Raya Bidshahri:
Like, even if you’re doing presentations, like listening to every presentation and doing the rubric and giving feedback, that takes a lot of time. I think there’s opportunity for AI to help, but that’s probably one of the barriers to scaling them at quality across the world as well.

Cyndi Burnett:
So how many students do you have now in your school?

Raya Bidshahri:
We are about 60 at the moment. We’re going up to 100 this September. We’ve been doubling year on year since we founded the school two years ago.

Cyndi Burnett:
And since you started in 2020, have you had your first set of graduates?

Raya Bidshahri:
Not yet. So we officially launched our founding cohort in 2022. So we started in 2021. We first had a year of, like, summer schools, extracurriculars 22. We had our founding cohort. They’re now going to be finishing their second year and going into their third year. So our first graduates will be in another two years.

Cyndi Burnett:
So are the students online together? How do you build community in this virtual environment?

Raya Bidshahri:
So there’s a balance of synchronous and asynchronous kind of learning. So synchronous being workshops, mentorship sessions, community time, and so on. Asynchronous being the self paced component. We do about 12 hours a week of the live stuff and then the rest of the schedule is flexible and self paced, but requires like 15 hours. And so with all of the workshops, they’re designed to be very, very interactive. We take our online workshop design very seriously. We never lecture at learners for more than ten minutes at a time. All of our workshops start with an energizer and with reflections.

Raya Bidshahri:
There’s always hands on activities. We’ve done virtual escape rooms for learning. We do lots of whiteboards and collaboration, debates, discussions, really, you name it. It’s just super interactive learning experiences. And that’s another kind of important element of implementation when it comes to online learning. During COVID I think a lot of schools were just forced to just do zoom lectures and have a packed schedule, like with back to back classes in front of the from 09:00 a.m. to 03:00 p.m. or whatever the timings were, and we decided not to do that.

Raya Bidshahri:
We only have 3 hours a day of workshops and the sessions are designed to be very interactive, even online. Now, we don’t argue that this should replace in person socialization. In fact, we, from the admissions process from the start and throughout, are constantly checking in with learners and parents that there is a plan in place around in person communities that they’re a part of or in person socialization. We have an annual gathering every year where learners meet. Next week they’re going to Bali for the annual gathering, which is really exciting. And then in some places where we have like hotspots of learners, there’s like local community meets that happen. We have the Dubai hub and the Bristol hub. So we’re actively trying to find ways to also ensure we’re supplementing the online kind of high school with in person experiences as well.

Matthew Worwood:
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Cyndi Burnett:
Curiosity to create is a nonprofit organization dedicated to engaging professional development for school districts and empowering educators through online courses and personal coaching.

Matthew Worwood:
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Cyndi Burnett:
To learn more, check out curiositytocreate.org comma or check out the links in the show notes for this episode.

Matthew Worwood:
I have a question because I have certainly interacted with lots of amazing teachers and educators, not just on the podcast. Passionate like yourself, highly knowledgeable, and quite often one of the things that they say to me particularly, perhaps more of the younger teachers will say, oh, my dream is to start my own school. And I suspect that some of our listeners might have that dream as well. And obviously you’ve made that dream a reality. So I was wondering if you could kind of share your advice on how you go about putting together a school. And of course, there’s lots of different ways to which you can create a school. It doesn’t have to be a charter school in your home state as you’ve demonstrated.

Raya Bidshahri:
Yes, absolutely. I would really tackle it as an entrepreneur, really apply very similar principles that I would advise a startup founder, which is, first of all, starting with a problem. I do think that there’s lots of different issues in the education space, and different schools or models of education can focus on different aspects of it. We’ll cater to a group of types of Personas of learners, but we probably need innovative schools that are focused entirely on special learning differences or schools that are focused on learners from really, really low income backgrounds and a bit of focus on what problem you’re solving. So that’s the first thing really identifying why. What is the why of your school, what is it being designed to solve and who are you doing that with? And then the second piece is really once you have that why and problem, going deep with some of the people that are affected by that challenge, speaking to the learners, speaking to the parents, keeping in mind that they won’t have the answers or solutions, but really help understanding the root causes of some of those issues with them. The third thing I would recommend is, again, very similar. In the startup world, there’s a concept of MVP, like a minimum viable product.

Raya Bidshahri:
So what would an MVP version of the school look like, which is a basic version of the school that you can prove as the model. So, for example, for us, we actually launched a summer school. First, strategically, long term, our emphasis is not going to be on the summer school, but it allowed us to test some aspects of the curriculum and see what works. And then we started with 20 learners and grew from there. So it could be that your mvp is a micro school or an online version of the physical school. There’s lots of possibilities on that front. And then the last kind of advice I would have is start thinking about the recognition plan really early. So things like accreditation, benchmarking, local licensing, those things take lots of time.

Raya Bidshahri:
And, you know, it took us over two years to get accredited. And so the sooner you start thinking about that and researching it will benefit you in the long term and ensure that at least by the time you have your first graduates, all of those things are complete.

Cyndi Burnett:
Thank you so much. I love that inspiration that you’ve given to our educators and potentially creating their own schools. So last night I was working with my son, who is 16, on a paper. He wrote the paper and he asked me to check it for him. So I checked it and I said, have you run this through Grammarly? Which I run everything through Grammarly. And he said, yeah, I’ll check it with Grammarly. So there’s a little button on Grammarly that says improve it AI. And I said, oh, let’s see what this improve it button says.

Cyndi Burnett:
He said, nope, stop, I’m not allowed to use AI. And I thought, ah, but if only he was allowed to use AI, he could actually see how he could strengthen the argument and use it if he was allowed to. But he said, don’t even press it because I’m not allowed to do it. So I would love to know, what are your thoughts around generative AI and how it’s coming out and how do you use it or not use it in the project based learning that you do in your school?

Raya Bidshahri:
It’s obviously such a hot topic, and those situations are ones I think our learners confront with all the time as well. So on a personal front, I’m a techno optimist. I’m really excited about the possibilities. I mean, I recognize the ethical risks, and of course, we need to prepare for that too. But especially in education, I think AI has the potential to reduce so much admin that educators do and despise, and so that they can focus on the more human and creative and open ended side of teaching. So that’s my hope in terms of what would happen long term with regards to our learners. So we do have a use of AI policy and what we did really early on, like within a month of chat GPT being released, the world is workshopped it with them and involved them in the process of creating it. And essentially we have two tables.

Raya Bidshahri:
One is situations where you’re encouraged and you’re allowed to use AI in situations where you’re not. And it’s plagiarism. So, for example, when it comes to concept, explanation, research, creation, brainstorming, even revision of activities, suggestions to improve presentation skills, citation, formatting, those are situations where they are allowed to use AI. When it comes to full plagiarism, like asking AI to generate the whole essay for you and pretending like you wrote it, you know, or even just anything that would misrepresent your abilities, then that goes into the kind of realm of plagiarism. Now, the tricky thing, I think, with the situation you’re describing is, you know, some learners will be really honest with, like, genuinely using it to learn. And then teenagers are teenagers and humans are humans. I mean, I’m sure adults do this too, where they would hack the system. And, you know, there’s tools now that allow you to take a generated essay, run it through this tool, and it will actually make more errors into it so that it looks more real to your educators.

Raya Bidshahri:
So the length that people are willing to go is quite extreme. So I know that it’s weird because some educators get discouraged, right? They’re like, oh, my gosh, how are we ever going to teach them? I’m just like, okay, this is the reality of the world we live in, and we just have to keep reminding them that it’s about learning. And there will come a time where you do have to write something authentically, and we just have to make sure you’re actually learning those skills.

Cyndi Burnett:
Well, Raya, it has been inspiring to listen to your story and congratulations on the success you’ve had so far. And I can’t wait. Maybe we’ll do a follow up in a few years to see where you’re at with the. Because I’d love to hear where these students go and what they end up doing. So really exceptional. And thank you so much for joining us on the show. So we end every episode with three tips that you would recommend to educators to help them bring creative thinking into the classroom. So what would you recommend?

Raya Bidshahri:
I would recommend, firstly, to create open ended experiences. So have time or lessons or opportunities where there is plenty of space for learners to have divergent thinking. Right. And to actually have a more open ended approach. Secondly, to do this consistently, creativity is like a muscle, and so is things like challenge based learning or solutionary thinking. Learners really struggle with it the first time, but then they, when they keep applying themselves in this context, they start to come up with more and more innovative and creative solutions. Last but not least, one of the most intellectually stimulating ways to incite creativity is interdisciplinarity. So trying to break down the barriers between subjects and disciplines and teach and learn in an interdisciplinary way, it can really help you make the connections between different fields of study that, again, can contribute to more creativity and innovation.

Matthew Worwood:
Well, that has concluded what I think is an absolutely awesome episode. Or shall I say, brilliant. My wife’s challenging me to speak more british recently, so absolutely brilliant episode. Listen, if you’re listening to this and you’re inspired in probably the same way Cindy and I are inspired. And you know, someone out there that keeps talking about wanting to start their own school, I think this is absolutely an episode to share with them. Obviously, if you are parent or, you know, a parent who might be interested in this high school, another great reason to share this episode. And also, I would say that if you’re looking at implementing some project based learning, the conversations around project based learning, challenge based learning, I think this is another reason to share this episode. So my name is Doctor Matthew Worwood.

Cyndi Burnett:
And my name is Doctor Cindy Burnett. This episode was produced by Matthew Worwood and Cindy Burnett. Our podcast sponsor is curiosity to create, and our editor is Sam Atkinson.