Zviko [00:00:00]:
Learning to value play is also, in a way, learning to value freedom, if you can relate play to freedom in that sense. And to value play is to value our imagination, to value our creativity, and continually entertaining the idea that we always have an option to create new models of being. And for me, that’s particular significant considering the kind of state of being that we’re kind of existing in right now.

Cyndi Burnett [00:00:33]:
Hello everyone, my name is Dr. Cindy Burnett.

Matthew Worwood [00:00:36]:
And my name is Dr. Matthew Werwood.

Cyndi Burnett [00:00:38]:
This is the fueling creativity and education podcast.

Matthew Worwood [00:00:42]:
On this show, we’ll be talking about creativity topics and how they apply to the field of education.

Cyndi Burnett [00:00:47]:
We’ll be speaking with scholars, educators, and resident experts about their work, challenges they face, and digging deeper into new and varying perspectives of creativity, all with the.

Matthew Worwood [00:00:58]:
Goal to help fuel a more rich and informed discussion that provides teachers and parents with knowledge they can use at home or in the classroom.

Cyndi Burnett [00:01:06]:
So let’s begin. So today we welcome to the show Shuiko Kanyoka, who is a project manager for placemaking programs at Play Africa with a background in architecture. Her work is driven by her passion for supporting children’s creative expression and right to the city through participatory development. She’s currently preparing to scale play Africa’s design thinking with children program across sub saharan Africa, empowering children with creative skills through encouraging their active citizenship within their communities. Welcome.

Zviko [00:01:40]:
Thank you Cindy. I’m really glad to be here.

Cyndi Burnett [00:01:44]:
So tell us about you and how you became the program manager for Play Africa.

Zviko [00:01:50]:
So briefly put, my background is in architecture and during my postgraduate studies, I really developed a deep interest in how the built environment could better support a child’s development. During that time, I was learning a lot about participatory development and going into school communities. That greatly reminded me a lot of my own early learning experiences where I had very limited agency over the things that affected my life. I was seeing a lot of that and it created this deep desire in me to find a way for my work to be in service of children. And after various explorations, I eventually went on to join play Africa in the development of the designing with children Toolkit. It created a great continuity in what I had grown passionate about and with great mentors who are passionate about empowering children in the organization, like Rachel and CEO Gretchen Wilson Prangley. This paved way for me to become program manager for the placemaking programs at.

Matthew Worwood [00:02:54]:
Play Africa and I just have a follow up because we talk a lot about kind of like blend of connections, collaboration, various different background. I’m just curious, your background in architecture. How does that play into your role? Can you give us some examples of how you seeing the world as an architect kind of helps support a the curriculum and programs you design and maintain, but then also your work with children in the classroom?

Zviko [00:03:25]:
So I think one of the most important things was actually seeing the built environment as an acting agent on the growth of a child. So through that, I started realizing that there were more actors on the growth of a developing child than just engagement with teachers and so forth. So it was also looking at the physical environment that they’re in and actually realizing that that has an impact on how children develop. So I think through that work, I found ways in which the built environment could be better shaped to actually support children’s development, and in the process, also have children have their perspective shared in how they experience the physical environment. So this is part of how the designing with children approach came about, where it was like, how can children actually actively participate in this environment that usually they are a passive recipient of?

Matthew Worwood [00:04:32]:
So I do want to just follow up on this concept of the physical space, because we may have touched on it in previous episodes, but I can only really remember in our first season with Tamara Dolman, we kind of touched on this idea of a physical environment and how that contributes to how children are behaving and enacting and engaging with creativity. So I’m curious, the fact that you’re getting children to kind of participate in setting up that environment. Are we talking about colors on the wall, pictures on the wall, moving around, classroom furniture, everything? Or are we actually also talking about the design and development of new physical structures as well?

Zviko [00:05:16]:
I think it’s definitely both. What we really try to explore when engaging children is trying to kind of not put limitations in terms of how much they contribute to that process. So kind of keeping it open ended for children to really bring their full selves into the process and explore that as much as they would like, and then sort of work with whatever comes out of those workshops? So often you will find sort of surface level contributions, but often that also, what I really love about the work is that it contributes to the creating of a whole new typology of architecture. Right. Because you’re starting to, I guess, engage with an age group that is often completely excluded in the development of communities. So I think what we’re really doing is challenging architecture as a whole and creating a whole new typology of what cities that serve children look like.

Cyndi Burnett [00:06:20]:
Can you take us through an example of the process that you use? And then what happens with the children, how long does it take? What are the tools that use or techniques or strategies? And then what are some of the outcomes you’ve seen?

Zviko [00:06:35]:
Our work is really supported by our view of children having a right to participate in public life and in place making. And we’re trying to help children be seen, heard and valued with voices and ideas that matter. And their ideas are really helping us code design meaningful responses to our local context. And our participatory approach embraces design thinking. And through hands on workshops, we’re centering children’s very experiences, feelings and needs, and we’re helping them learn how to identify social challenges and creatively problem solve through ideating, prototyping and testing possible solutions for safer, more playful communities. So our workshop is designed to serve ages seven to twelve, but we have tested this approach with, like ages slightly younger. We’ve also tested it with teenagers. And what we enjoy about this process is that we have observed children respond really well to how we infuse play in the process.

Zviko [00:07:43]:
And it becomes this playful and creative problem solving experience where children learn creative skills and they’re also coming together to think about the ways they can make space for more play and more playful learning. And the workshops themselves run for about two to 3 hours, but they can be adapted to, for example, a classroom setting where you have a 30 minutes segment every day, or you can have it longer, like a two hour session in the morning, a two hour session in the afternoon. You can also repeat this process multiple times, because children only get better when they engage with a certain tool more than once.

Cyndi Burnett [00:08:25]:
So once they go through this process, what are some of the things that they come up with and are they implemented? Are they thought about? Tell us more about that.

Zviko [00:08:32]:
So there’s different ways in which we have been approaching this. Some of these workshops have been implemented as creative exercises and opportunities for children to simply learn creative skills and communication skills, and all kinds of different content regarding their physical environments, whether it’s increasing their special awareness or just getting them more connected to their physical spaces that they use every day and empowering their voices. But sometimes we’re also having opportunities for children to implement. For example, we’ve had children design a mural in their school which tackles mental health issues. We’ve had children design for a boxing arena, for an NGO that they work with. It really depends on the context that we’re working in and the kind of need there is in that particular context, and what, I guess, the rituals are for those children and what they value the most. So we’re really having a lot of outcomes, and we kind of work on it, depending on the case and the context in which we’re in this conversation.

Matthew Worwood [00:09:49]:
Is reminding me of an episode we had with Rochelle Archer around artful leadership, because there was a sense of using the art to kind of connect with personal attributes, your identity, and kind of, like, bring that into the environment to kind of assist and help with your own agency and leadership. And I feel like you’re getting varied outcomes, perhaps as a consequence, that this program is doing a really good job at connecting to the multiple identities that exist in the program, all these different students bringing something new, something that they value. So could you talk specifically about that within this design thinking process? So is there really kind of, what do you care most about, and how do we bring that into the space?

Zviko [00:10:36]:
So I think what’s most significant for us when we’re engaging children in those communities, and also when we designed the process, it was, I think, actually being sensitive to the fact that it’s not enough for us to work with theories that have been studied about children, or simply engaging psychologists, for example, that have worked with children and studied children. Those things often give you sort of generic information that can be applied to space, whereas our approach, it’s actually starting to delve into that identity that you’re speaking of, where there’s often, like, a group identity that you have within a certain context, and you have certain cultures and you have certain rituals that children in a specific context will have. And I think what’s powerful about this process is that when we start engaging with a specific community, then you kind of get in touch with what is really happening in that context beyond the general information that you could access online or from a book and so forth. And that also creates these spaces that the people in the community or the children in the community can connect to and can also even help with further development of the spaces or maintain.

Cyndi Burnett [00:12:02]:
Yeah, and this brings me right back to our episode with Vlan Glavino, where he talked about sociocultural theory and the importance of understanding the context of that community when you go in with creativity, ideas, and theories. So I think that really just drove the whole point of making sure you understand the context of the community before you bring in those creativity principles and really giving agency to the students to understand and reflect and create.

Matthew Worwood [00:12:35]:
Shawiko. I have to ask this question because I don’t really know anything about urban city planning, but do follow the importance of us being more mindful on how we’re designing communities and also actually thinking about the impacts of a changing climate in the future. And I’m just really curious to just ask you, are you getting students to think a little bit about that?

Zviko [00:12:56]:
We’re definitely giving some thought to aspects like that, but I would say we do have other programs within play Africa that specifically focus on climate change and conservation and so forth. But in general, I’d say within the place making programs, there’s definitely the forecasting of the city and the physical environments through the work that we’re doing. And it also involves, I guess we’re working in very just to give context to some of the spaces that we’re working in. It’s really in townships, in informal settlements and so forth. So these are also spaces where they have very limited space, they don’t have sanitation and so forth. So even just with regards to forecasting the future of those cities, it’s also about thinking about ways in which greenery can be brought into those spaces. How can they have more spaces together? How can they have more sanitation and so forth? But specifically speaking to conservation and so forth and climate change, we do have play Africa programs that specifically speak to that, that they don’t particularly fall under placemaking.

Matthew Worwood [00:14:15]:
Just to follow up on that, there’s a need to gather knowledge about particular problems and challenges. So could you talk us a little bit about how you go and help students acquire knowledge of these issues? Is it very much localized to South Africa? Are you using the World Wide Web? Are they actually interviewing and interacting with other people, other students? Or is it all just kind of like coming from their perspective, their viewpoint?

Zviko [00:14:40]:
So a lot of our approach at the moment has been trying to really first make the process, like, more child led. So kind of going from what is their perspective, what is their experience of the spaces before? We kind of try to lead on to what to specifically focus on, but trying to kind of start it off on a clean slate and letting them lead us to the problems that they are identifying or the things that they are like, these are the positives and would like to amplify this beautiful thing that is happening in our space. So it’s been very child led. But then when we do gather the outcomes of those workshops, sometimes we will have a follow up workshop where we’re now focusing on some of the very specific challenges that they have identified and sort of support them in maybe thinking about those issues more deeply and providing them with materials to tackle some of those problems that they have identified. But we try to be led by them as opposed to kind of identifying the issues for them.

Cyndi Burnett [00:15:52]:
Can you tell us more about how your program creates impact in communities beyond encouraging children’s creative expression, which is so important, but perhaps with adults or educators, how are you creating impact through the.

Zviko [00:16:08]:
Design thinking with children program? We have been offering trainings for educators and architects and community leaders to lead these workshops within their own context, because we do realize that as much as we’re passionate about reaching thousands and thousands of children, we just do not have the capacity to reach all the areas we’d love to. So one way we’ve been doing that is to offer trainings, and we also have educators, for example, or caregivers, come in to observe our workshops as well. Through that process, we’re seeing a lot of adults, educators and caregivers come out of our workshops with either a newfound interest in supporting children’s voices and creative expression, or with a new understanding of children’s capacity as change makers. Through our trainings and workshops specifically, we’re seeing a transformation in how adults view children and view play and view creativity. More adults come out of the workshops sharing our view of children as curious, strong, and full of potential, as full and complete citizens that are active agents in their own learning and development of their environments. So it’s really exciting to witness.

Matthew Worwood [00:17:34]:
So could you tell us a little bit about play and why play is important?

Zviko [00:17:38]:
I would say play is really essential for me and for children particularly, because I feel it’s just a great way of acquiring knowledge and making sense of the world. In that sense, I just feel like it should be made more accessible to children, and it’s devastating in context, like South Africa, where we are, I think, according to UNICEF, only 30% of the children in South Africa have access to safe play areas. I guess, creates a very big demand for the work that we do. And I also feel it’s like learning to value play is also, in a way, learning to value freedom, if you can relate play to freedom in that sense, and to value play is to value our imagination, to value our creativity, and continually entertaining the idea that we always have an option to create new models of being. And for me, that’s particularly significant, considering the kind of state of being that we’re kind of existing in right now.

Matthew Worwood [00:18:48]:
So, Shavika, we’ve spoken about context, and I want to come back to that again, but this idea of being able to have the freedom to play, could you describe specifically some of the things that perhaps some might take for granted, that others are not in a position? What does that mean, the freedom to play?

Zviko [00:19:12]:
A lot of spaces in South Africa are still riddled with the remnants of apartheid. And we have areas that just have such limited space, and we still have schools that still need to go through major transformations in terms of just the quality of education. They have limited resources, very large classes where teachers don’t really get to engage students one on one. And those schools often maybe don’t even really have playgrounds and so forth. So for me, when it really comes to the significance of play for children and what it really means, it’s really just that freedom to explore and to express yourself and to kind of show up honestly, which I think play really allows us to do. And often they are really stuck in those environments where there’s just restricted movement because of just the amount of space that is available to them. And then in the classrooms as well, just because of the size of the classrooms, you have these very rigid structures and instructions which are just meant to keep order and so forth. And so they really have that limited, I guess, permission to be themselves, to show up fully.

Zviko [00:20:39]:
And I think that’s really what play offers people, and they just don’t get the opportunity to do that, which is pretty devastating.

Matthew Worwood [00:20:49]:
And there’s certainly places in the US as well. I remember traveling from one town, I’d only been in the country for about a year, and I remember traveling from one town to another town. It was ten minutes apart, and there were children out playing in these playgrounds that look really well funded and brand new. And you travel to the other town and there wasn’t actually any playgrounds. And I remember there was a big conversation about a basketball court and trying to work with the community to make sure that there was an agreement that the basketball court would be a place that everyone would kind of contribute and work toward making sure it was a safe environment where kids could go to and just play and not have fears of any kind of violence or being attacked, as you know. Again, it seems small and we can take things for granted sometimes. And I can’t help but go back to an interview that we had with Mohammed Isa again in season one. And we were talking about all these great ways of facilitating creativity and creative thinking and engaging students in real world project environments.

Matthew Worwood [00:21:56]:
And to a certain extent, what we were reminded of is, before that takes place, there has to be a safe environment. Before that takes know, children need to be comfortable of just being know. Mohammed, if you remember, Cindy, had referenced that mental health was also a challenge to a certain extent, and that was partly because people didn’t feel safe. And so we can do everything we want about talking about creativity know, all these different theories and practices. But again, when we can’t pick something from one part of the world or one town and think it’s going to apply to the town next door or another country, and that is why collaboration is so important, working together to collaborate, but to understand whenever we’re going implementing a program, this is what we need to consider as we put that into the environment. So in terms of your program itself, could you talk a little bit about that? Have you expanded it to other areas? Have you had conversations about other areas? And has there been a kind of like, unique ways in thinking about spaces based on different environments? And have you had to kind of tweak and change the program as well when working with different people and different collaborators?

Zviko [00:23:12]:
So we have definitely had to continually adapt the workshop. And I think what has been really awesome is that when we were developing our toolkit and our approach to designing with children, one of the things that were very significant or very important for us to incorporate was that adaptability. And we went through an entire period where we were just testing out the methodology in different contexts and with different partners as well, just to see how adaptable that would be. Because I think one of the major challenges was that a lot of the resources that are available globally, they’re really difficult to adapt to an african context. And that’s sometimes because some of the methods require children to kind of engage with those participatory methods using video games like Minecraft, which in our context is not easily accessible to a lot of children. So we had to really think about a methodology that a teacher in the rural areas could kind of pick up and just gather recyclable materials and have children prototype ideas. So that was very significant for very important in terms of the development of the workshop for us. And we have tested it, informal settlements, we have tested it with townships and other contexts.

Zviko [00:24:46]:
And we have also tried it with graduate students, for example, like architecture graduate students for their research projects. They have used this methodology to kind of come up with designs for their projects while engaging children. We have tried it in schools where they have sort of adapted it instead of, because it’s designed as a two to three hour workshop, they have been able to adapt it into something they incorporate for their class periods, which are like half an hour. So they would have that over two, three weeks and have it like half an hour for two or three days per week. And we have also had people who have never worked with children use that methodology, or people who have never engaged with place making use that methodology. So it’s been interesting to see the different ways in which it can be adapted.

Cyndi Burnett [00:25:44]:
We typically end our podcast with asking for three creativity tips. But instead of three creativity tips, I wonder if you could provide us with your standard sort of setup in terms of the workshops that you deliver. One or two or three different sessions. If teachers have these at home, what could they implement so often?

Zviko [00:26:05]:
Let’s say this is something that’s being done in a school, and they want to create a transformation in a communal space that the children use. It could be a library or a classroom, and they just want to make it more engaging and playful and maybe even just accessible. We’ve had occasions where we did it at a kindergarten, and some of the things that came out of the workshop were children just saying where they have to hang their bags. It’s too high for them. They can’t reach for it. Like something so small like that can come out of the workshops. And so some of the ways in which it could be adapted is to, for example, if you want to transform a classroom, you kind of have a day when you do a site visit. So whether it’s the classroom or it’s the library, you take the children to the site to familiarize them with the space that they will be engaging with and also increase sort of their spatial awareness.

Zviko [00:27:08]:
If it’s a much larger space, maybe you need to take a tour of the area. And then you want to kind of prepare them for the design thinking process, which is like empathizing and empathizing with other children and defining the challenges that they face in that environment, which could be a whole exercise on its own, because you’re kind of also helping them build their vocabulary around their emotions and identifying those and also trying to understand how other children feel in those spaces. So sort of decentering themselves in the process as well. And you could have a second session, a second or third session where they are just ideating, which is just drawing, getting comfortable with drawing and visualizing these different ideas that they want to see in those spaces. So what kind of transformations are they trying to see to tackle the challenges that they identified? So that could be a whole lesson on its own, where they’re just getting comfortable with getting those ideas on paper and communicating those. And you could have a fourth session where it’s just prototyping and they are working with whatever materials are accessible to them. And maybe even before the prototyping, you just have a session with them where they are gathering materials for the workshop. So this could be them collecting over a week some materials from home that they can use for the workshop, whether it’s boxes, paper, maybe even participating in making glue, making clay door for the workshop.

Zviko [00:28:49]:
And then they have a whole session for prototyping where they are picking some of the ideas that they ideated and building little models of these transformations they want to see in those spaces. And then you can still then have another session of testing and sharing. And depending on how they go through the different steps, you can also repeat some of these parts of the process, right, because that’s part of design thinking where it doesn’t have to be linear. You can kind of go back to ideating again. You can go back to prototyping a few times. You can test and share, come back to prototyping again, test and share. So it’s something that can really happen over a long period of time, if you so wish.

Matthew Worwood [00:29:38]:
So, Shabiko, thank you so much for being on our podcast. We’ve really enjoyed talking a little bit about this, and also thank you so much. I think you probably have encouraged Cindy and myself to think a little bit more about physical space in the future. I mean, we’ve always thought about it, but I think we probably do need to dedicate more episodes to talking about that. So that concludes this episode of the fueling Creativity in Education podcast. If you’re enjoying our content, please subscribe to our newsletter. You can find the link in our show notes. If you have any questions or thoughts about this episode, past episode, or even future episodes, please reach out to Cindy or myself at questions@fuelingcreativitypodcast.com my name is Dr.

Matthew Worwood [00:30:16]:
Matthew Werwood.

Cyndi Burnett [00:30:17]:
And my name is Dr. Cindy Burnett. This podcast was produced by creativity and education and in partnership with dadsforcreativity.com. Our editor is Sina Isade.